Indoor Photos

[Belinda Jones]

Barbara

I've just completed 2 indoor shows. I use a Nikon D80 with a 2.8 70 - 300mm lens and use a flash with iso at 400. If I make the iso any higher, photo's come out really grainy. When I use the flash, shutter speed is set at 200.

Here is the result of the above combination. However, when someone requests a photo, I try to drag them outside

On the major downside of shooting indoors - photoshop work afterwards becomes extensive. Levels, Curves, Color correction, Sharpening, Red Eye correction, takes me over a week to apply to these photographs to make them decent enough to consider posting for purchase.

[Stephen Crowers]

One more thing:

If you are shooting a "backyard" show for a local barn (which is what it sounds like from your description of the barn-owner telling you what to shoot): You might want to learn about the business side of things before you start selling images - or even being "perceived" as being a business. If a horse spooks while you are shooting, you may be blamed (since you have a camera in your hand) - most of us who do this even semi-professionally carry fairly hefty liability insurance policies for just this reason.

Feel free to look me up as I'm more than willing to share what little I know about anything...

[Sharon Packer]

Thank you guys for interpreting my hurried statements. Is there another photographer at these shows, Barbara, or are you serving as the official photographer? If there is an official photographer and you are taking photos of everyone from your barn, then you are breaching ethics. If there is an official photographer, you need to contact that person before you bring out your camera.

I would not use a flash unless show management has given you the OK and you have a sufficient business liability insurance to cover a serious accident for people and horses. A homeowner's policy will not cover it.

On the major downside of shooting indoors - photoshop work afterwards becomes extensive. Levels, Curves, Color correction, Sharpening, Red Eye correction, takes me over a week to apply to these photographs to make them decent enough to consider posting for purchase.

This is normal.

[Barbara Krusen]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I really appreciate them. I am the offical photographer of the "home" shows. I take photos at "away" shows but don't sell them I just share them with my friends who are showing. A lot of the "away" shows have offical photographers and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I have been contracted by a specific owner to take photos of just his horse at a dressage show and I assume that is OK. Let me know if it is not please!

I never use a flash because of the chance of spooking a horse. It's not worth taking the risk. As everyone has said indoor photos are...well ... what they are. I was wondering if anyone had any tricks I was missing. I think the best trick is to just drag people outside!

[Barb Young]

I have been contracted by a specific owner to take photos of just his horse at a dressage show and I assume that is OK. Let me know if it is not please!

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Definitely not ok to sell photos to any competitor at a show where there is an Official Photographer. AS I mentioned earlier, we work our fannies off with huge expenses for not much profit. It's pretty unethical to compete with the OP even for one competitor. We call it poaching. You can take that person's photos anywhere else.

[E Parki]

Maybe if people stopped bullying/scaring other people out of taking photos at shows, even of friends, then the quality of equine event photography would improve. I don't know about anywhere else, but in the UK many of the websites i go on are full of overexposed, wonkey, badly timed photos. I think photography should be like any other business, where the good get paid because they are good and work hard. Often, the 'pro' photographer is the only person at an event who competitors can get a photo off, and i think for the prices of some of them, they should be a good quality.

It makes me angry how many times i see pro equine photographers being snappy with people who are just out to learn, not to steal business. and anyway, If you're good enough, IMO your business won't be stolen.

[Sharon Packer]

It makes me angry how many times i see pro equine photographers being snappy with people who are just out to learn, not to steal business. and anyway, If you're good enough, IMO your business won't be stolen.

In response, perhaps if people with cameras had the courtesy to get permission from show management and the official photographer in advance, no one would be snappy. After all we are talking about approaching a ring with a high performance horse and rider aboard who paid a lot of money to be there.
I'm sure you do not want to do anything to risk the safety of the horse and rider or ruin their test. Part of the job of management and the OP is to ensure safety. I have never refused anyone who contacted me before a show, the opportunity to shoot with me. And there is one threat from outside cameras.
So many people with pro equipment want to have their name in lights, that they are willing to give away their work. Free photos win out over buying in this economy and has nothing to do with being good.

[Barb Young]

It makes me angry how many times i see pro equine photographers being snappy with people who are just out to learn, not to steal business. and anyway, If you're good enough, IMO your business won't be stolen.

Perhaps if you courteously contact the OP before you come and start shooting, he/she would be as courteous back. All we, as OP's, want is to know is that you are not poaching (and taking photos for your barn or a client IS poaching if there is an OP). And sure, there are many "OP's" out there, who don't know much about horses in general, the discipline specifically, or anything else. They speed shoot and dump all the photos up for viewing. I got into equine photography, because I couldn't find anyone who knew how to properly shoot my sport horses in the breed or show ring. I found it was a little easier to find qualified handlers and riders than it was to find qualified equine photographers. That is still true, and I still try to get an even decent shot of my "babies", when they are out in the world showing or at registry inspections. It's really frustrating, and it just happened again with an ignorant photographer at a breed inspection in OK, where one my "babies" was being approved as a broodmare. Not a showable photo in the bunch!

So to those who are setting out: KNOW what you're doing and be ethical. Show photographers like Sharon, who is one of the very best in the business, make a living from providing excellent photos, and if you're undercutting or giving them away, she/I/we cannot make a living, and yes, then ALL the equine event photographers will be crappy!

[E Parki]

It makes me angry how many times i see pro equine photographers being snappy with people who are just out to learn, not to steal business. and anyway, If you're good enough, IMO your business won't be stolen.

After all we are talking about approaching a ring with a high performance horse and rider aboard who paid a lot of money to be there.
I'm sure you do not want to do anything to risk the safety of the horse and rider or ruin their test. Part of the job of management and the OP is to ensure safety.

If it's a friend, or someone you know who has asked for some snaps taking, then the point about 'ruining' the test is pretty invalid.

I know a lot of people on here are from the US etc, but in Britain at events such as badminton, should only the official pro photographer be taking photos? Because if so, i think they need to ban about 1000 people from taking cameras into the events. I have seen many an example of non pro shots being 100x better than the 'pro' official event photographer. And the people who take the better shots make no money. How is that fair? It's not. Even some of the most famous photography companies here produce some shocking photos, but they can carry on producing substandard products, because of this monopoly over the events. It's wrong, and it's ruining the photography world, not just the equestrian one.

[Sharon Packer]

It seems you have quite an ax to grind. Perhaps it would be good for you to learn more about what goes into running a photography business, the rather shocking expense and responsibilities of serving as OP before becoming so ensenced. Try to think about this from the rider's perspective. Would you want to be surrounded by "a thousand" cameras? Several photographers appeared at my last show. Many riders called me to ask what was going on because these hobbyists and others made them feel very uncomfortable during their test. We are there to serve the riders. If the riders are not happy with the OP then they should be the ones complaining, not you. If your work is so good, then compete by putting a contract before show managment. Then see exactly how much money you make for the best shot as OP.

[Laurie Taylor]

It makes me angry how many times i see pro equine photographers being snappy with people who are just out to learn, not to steal business. and anyway, If you're good enough, IMO your business won't be stolen.

Just a couple of things to think about; If you were to find a wedding going on in a public park, would you consider it ok to start moving around in the area of the wedding and the wedding party and guests, and shooting the wedding in order to learn wedding photography?

Can learning take place by contacting a local trainer's barn, and asking for permission to come and practice during lessons and training sessions - or can learning only happen at the shows?

If what you want to accomplish can only be done during an actual show, how about practicing and learning in the warm up rings (with the prior blessing of the OP)?

Side note; when I was learning, I found many OPs who were willing to help me to learn. Even found a couple who offered to let me "test drive" some of the equipment that they had, that was on my "to be aquired" or "wish" list. And I found some who actually had the equipment that I had back then, as their backup gear! Others who, during breaks would take time to review what I had and make helpful comments to help me to improve.

The difference was that I tried to be courteous and contacted them ahead of time, explained what it was that I hoped to accomplish, and asked if it would be ok; if it was, then I introduced myself at the show before I did anything else, confirmed again what it was that I hoped to accomplish. (If it wasn't OK with them for any reason, I refrained and found another venue).

Think about other reasons that an OP might be uncomfortable with someone who just shows up and starts shooting over the rail; one of my horror stories involves a photographer who ultimately unzipped and proceeded to relieve himself - in view of the grandstands and in front of a class of junior riders ! Unfortunately many exhibitors who did not know me, assumed that this man was working for/with the OP - in this case, me!

Just some things to think about.

[Laurie Taylor]

To Barbara - I second most of what's been posted here, about indoor venues. Tough under the best of circumstances.

I believe that the D40 has some limitations on the lenses that it is compatible with.

How high is the ISO can you use without getting a lot of grain in your images?

[Sharon Packer]

Laurie, it depends on your camera. I use the Mark III and can get decent shots at 2400 with a little noise reduction. I have the aperture wide open. Many times I have to use 6400 with a shutter speed of 1/200 and do a tremendous amount of editing to have a good photo. It's tough. Of course I could not work in these conditions at all without really good glass.
Unless the horse fills my frame or nearly fills my frame, the images will not be of a quality that I want to show.

@ the person supposedly from England, we are talking about lighting. The Badminton Horse Trials are not held in indoor light. No photographer has a monopoly at a show. If an official photographer has exclusivity, it is because of a contractual agreement between the photographer and show management. This is a very competitive position.

[Laurie Taylor]

Sharon, I agree completely.

I understand about the differences in the cameras. I can shoot easily at ISO 2000 to 2500 and can stretch it a bit more without a huge amount of noise reduction. And of course that it usually wide open with the 2.8.

I'm not sure if the D40 will offer her those options, or the selection in glass. Which is why I was confirming that.

[Linda Finstad]

Indoor photography is the bain of all equine photographers - I have given up completely - and if the show is indoors I work the collecting area (outside) and take the champions outside for their official sponsorship pictures. I ask the anouncer and the stewards to tell the winners they have to come outside for pictures.
Its funny but once they have been given a ribbon they are much more agreeable to pose and smile - so there are candid shots and winning shots from my indoor shows. both sell quite well